The Mystery of the World Beyond
Spoken by The Supreme Master Ching Hai
June 26, 1992
United Nations, New YorkWelcome to the United Nations. And please pray together for a while in your own belief that we are grateful for what we have, what we are given, and we wish, we hope that those who have not enough will be given the way we are given; the world's refugees, the war victims, the soldiers, the government leaders and of course the United Nations' leaders will be able to accomplish what they want and live together in peace. We believe what we ask will be given because it is says so in the Bible.
Thank you! It has been a long time since I was here. Have any of you been here before, I mean been to my lecture before? When? Oh, Yes? So many? Thank you. You know today the theme of our lecture is "Beyond This World", because I don't think I would like to talk to you about this world anymore. That you all know. Yes? You know this world we have the United Nations, we have America, New York (Big Apple), but beyond this world, we have other things. I think all of you who came here would be interested to know. It's not something like Stephen just said about miracles or anything fantastic that you cannot believe. It is something very scientific, very logical and very important.
We all heard that in different kinds of religious bibles or scriptures, it is mentioned that there are seven heavens, there are different levels of consciousness. There is the Kingdom of God within, there is Buddha nature, etc.. These are some things that are promised beyond this world. But not many people have access to what is promised in these scriptures, not many. I wouldn't say none, but not many. Compared to the population of the world, people who have access to the Kingdom of God within or what we call, "what is beyond this world", are very few. And if you are in America, probably you have many opportunities to read a lot of books that describe things that are beyond our world. And some of the movies that the American people made are not altogether fiction. Also, there are some movies made by Japanese that are also not all fiction. Because these people have probably read some of the books that have been written by those who have been beyond this world or they themselves have had some glimpses into the Kingdom of God.
So, in the Kingdom of God... what lies in the Kingdom of God? Why should we bother about the Kingdom of God if we already have enough work to do in the world and we have a job, we have secure houses, and we have enough loving relationships, etc? Precisely, because we already have all these, we should be concerned about the Kingdom of God. It sounds too religious when we say the Kingdom of God. It's actually just some level of higher consciousness. The people in the old days, they say that it is heaven, but in scientific terms, we can say, it is a different... a higher level of knowledge, a higher level of wisdom. And this we can have access to, should we know how.
So, in the late... lately in America, we have all heard of the latest invention... that people even have a machine to put you into samadhi. Have you experienced this? You haven't? No? It's in America on sale. Four hundred to seven hundred, depends on what level you want. They call... this is for the lazy people who don't want to meditate, just want to be right in samadhi. Now, in case you don't know, I'll be brief about that.
They say that this kind of machine can put you into a relaxed, mental attitude state... relaxing state, then you would achieve the high level of I.Q.. That's supposed to give you high knowledge, high wisdom and then you feel great, etc.. And this machine uses some selected music, outer music, so you need earphones, and then they put some electric, probably currents that stimulate you, then you probably see some flashes. So you need also a blindfold. The earphones and the blindfold, that's all you need for samadhi. This is very good, and four hundred dollars, very cheap. But our samadhi is even cheaper, it costs nothing, and it's forever, forever. And you don't need to charge with battery or electricity, plug in, plug out, or in case the machine goes out of order, you don't need to go and fix it.
Now, even if the artificial light and the artificial music could make people become so relaxed and so wise - it is supposed to give them this. But I have read on a newspaper what it's supposed to do, I haven't tried it myself. So that's why it is very hot and has sold a lot, I heard. Even these artificial things could put us into a relaxed mood and increase our I.Q., then could you imagine how much the real thing can help us in our wisdom? The real thing is beyond this world but it is accessible to every man, should we want to contact with it. This is the inner heavenly music and the inner heavenly sound. And depending on the intensity of this music... of the inner light or inner music, we can push ourselves beyond this world, go into a deeper level of understanding.
I guess it is just like the law of physics. You want to send some rocket into... beyond the gravity, you have to have a lot of pushing power behind that, and also when it flies very fast it also emanates some light. So I guess when we go fast into the beyond, we also... how to say? Oh, I speak Chinese too much. We can...radiate, yes, some light also, and also we can hear the sound. The sound is the kind of vibration power that pushes us into the higher level, but it does that without any noise, without much trouble and no cost and no discomfort to the experienced. That is the way to go into the beyond.
And what is beyond this world that is better than our world. Everything that we can imagine and cannot imagine. Once we experience it, then we know. No one else could tell us really. But we have to be persistent in that, and we have to truly be sincere, otherwise no one else can do it for us. The same like no one else can replace you to work at the U.N.'s office and you get pay for that. The same as no one else could help us to eat and then we get satisfied. Therefore, the way is to be experienced. We could listen to someone who has experience to tell us, but we cannot gain much experience from that. We may have experiences one time, for a couple of times or some days due to the power of that person who experienced God. Then we might see some light or hear some sound, very naturally without our effort, but in most cases, it doesn't last very long. So, we have to also experience it and do it ourselves.
Beyond our world, there are many different worlds. We could just put an example, like the one a little bit higher than us. What we call the astral world in the Western terminology. In the astral world, they have even one hundred and more different levels. And each level is a world of itself. And it represents our level of understanding. It's just like we go into the university. And then each grade as we go through the university, it represents our understanding more, about the university's teaching and then slowly we move to the graduation. In the astral world, we will see many kinds of so-called miracles and we probably will be tempted also by miracles and we probably will have miracles also. We can heal the sick, we can, how to say... sometimes see something that other people cannot see. We have at least six kinds of miraculous power. We can see beyond the ordinary boundary, we can hear beyond the limits of space. The distance doesn't make a difference to us. That's what we call the heavenly ears and the heavenly eyes. And then we can see through the people's thinking, and what he has in his mind, sometimes we can see etc.. These are the powers that sometimes we acquire when we have access to the first level of the Kingdom of God.
And within this first level, I have already said that we have many different other levels which offer us a lot more than language can describe. And when we get there, we will... if we.., for example, after initiation, then we meditate and if our level is at the first one, then we have many more abilities. Then we will even develop our literature talent which we didn't have before. And also we know many things that other people do not know and many things come to us just like gifts from heaven, sometimes financially, sometimes, how to say, career-wise and sometimes many other things. And we begin to be able to write poems or maybe we can draw pictures, and we can do something that we have not been able to do before and we couldn't imagine we could do that. That's the first level. And we could write poems and write books with the beautiful style. And we could have been a non-professional writer before, but we could write now, for example. These are very material benefits that we can get when we are in the first level of consciousness. Actually, these things are not God's gifts. These things are in heaven inside us and only because we have awakened them, they became alive. And then we can make use of them. So, this is some of the information about the first level. Is it okay? You want to hear more? Yes. Alright. Have you heard this before? You have! Yeah, you did! Who told you? Oh yeah, and then does he say something else? Okay.
Now, when we go to the higher level, for example, then we see many other things, and we achieve many other things. Of course I cannot tell you everything. Yes, because of time, for example. Also, it's not necessary to listen to all the beautiful things about cakes and candies and never eat them. Therefore, I just kind of appetize a little bit. And if you want to eat them, that's another thing. We can offer real food later on. Yes! Just in case you want to eat these things.
Now, if we go a little bit beyond this level to the second level, what we call "second", just for the sake of simplifying matters. The second level, then we will probably have a lot more abilities than the first one, and including the miracles. But the most striking achievement we can have at the second level is that.... the eloquence, and the ability to debate. And no one seems to be able to conquer a person who has achieved the second level because he has tremendous power of eloquence, and his intellect is at the peak of his power.
Most of the people who have ordinary mind or very simple I.Q. cannot match this person because his I.Q. has opened to a very high degree. But it is not only the physical brain that has been developed more, it is the mystical power, it is the heavenly power, the wisdom that is inherent inside us. Now it begins to open. In India, people call this level "Buddhi" means intellectual level. And when you achieve "Buddhi", you become a Buddha. That's where the word Buddha came from - " Buddhi" and Buddha. Now, so the Buddha is precisely just that. It's not finished. I am not going to introduce you to the Buddha only, there is more than that. So, most of the people call an enlightened person a Buddha. If he doesn't know beyond the second level, he would probably feel very proud about it. Yes, thinking that he is a living Buddha and his disciples would be very proud calling him Buddha. But actually if he only achieves the second level in which he can see through the past, present and future of any person he chooses to see and in which he has an absolute eloquence of speech, then it's not yet the end of the Kingdom of God.
And any person should not be proud of this ability of reading into the past, present and future because this is the akashic record, as you know in the western terminology. All of you who practice yoga or some kind of meditation will understand akashic record which is a kind of library like the one we have next door in the U.N.. You know, with all kinds of languages in it. You see Arabic, Russian, Chinese, English, French, German, everything in your library next door, all kinds of languages. Should you have the ability to read all these languages, you know what's going on in that country. Understand? So, similarly, the one who has access to the second level, he will understand, he can interpret a pattern of a person very clearly, the way you see your own biography.
There is much more to be gained from the second level of consciousness. But when one reaches the second level, this is already fantastic, already a living Buddha, because you have opened the "Buddhi", the intellect. And we know many things, many things that we could not name. And every so-called miracle would happen to us, whether we want it or not, because our intellect just opened and just knows how to contact the higher source of healing, of arranging so that our life would become smoother and better. And our intellect or "Buddhi" has opened so that it can have access to all the information necessary from the past and from the present in order to arrange and to kind of rearrange or kind of make up for something we did wrong in the past. You understand? So that to correct the mistake and then to make our life better.
For example, if we did not know that we have offended our neighbor by some unintentional action, and now we know. You understand? Very easy! If we did not know and the neighbor is silently against us and trying to do something sometimes behind us in order to harm us because of misunderstanding or because we did something wrong to the neighbor. But now we know, now we know why it happened. So, it's easy. We can go to the neighbor or we can telephone, or we can have a party, invite the neighbor in and then we clear the misunderstanding. Similar things when we get to the intellectual level, we automatically, I mean silently, understand all these and silently arrange all these or contact with some source of power which could help us to arrange these things, to better our way of life, to better our course of life. So, we minimize many accidents, many unwelcomed situations and unfavorable conditions of our life. Understand? Yes! Yes! Therefore, when we get to the second level, this is fantastic already.
Therefore, what I have explained to you is very scientific and very logical and no need to think that a yogi or meditation person is some kind of mystical person or an E.T., you know, extra terrestrial. They are terrestrial beings, like any one of us, who have developed, you know, because they know how. In America, we say everything depends on know-how, so we can learn everything. Right? We can learn everything. So this is a kind of beyond this world science, in which we could learn also. And it sounds very strange, but the higher the things, the more simple. It's more simple than we go to high school or college with all these very complicated mathematical questions and problems.
The second level... second level, there are many different levels also. I mean within the second level there are many levels, too. But I just make it brief because I cannot be detailed in all of the secrets of heaven. Yeah! Anyhow you will know all these also when you travel along with a master who has already traveled. So, it's no secret. But it is too long, you know, if we have to stop in each level - which has a lot of levels, sub-levels and we have to examine everything; it takes too long. So, sometimes a master just takes you briefly from one level after another, very fast. Cha! Cha! Cha! Because if you have nothing to do with mastership, then you don't need to learn so much. It'll give you headache. Therefore, just take you through and back home, because even then it takes a long time. Sometimes it takes a whole lifetime. But enlightenment we get immediately. But that is only starting, just like enrolling you know? The first day you enroll in the university, you become immediately the university student. But that has nothing to do with a PH.D. After six years, four years or twelve years then you graduate. But you immediately became, how to say, university student, if that is a real university, and if you enroll, you truly earnestly want to become a university student. Right? So, both sides have to cooperate.
Similarly, if we want to go beyond this world, for example, just say for fun, because we have nowhere else to go in New York. We have known everything about the Manhattan, Long Beach, "short" beach and every beach. Now suppose we want to take a trip to the E.T.'s place, to see what's going on, all right? Why not? Since we pay a lot of money to go to Miami, Florida, just to have a bath in the sea, so why couldn't we sometimes go to different worlds beyond this world to see what our neighbor planets look like and how do the people fare themselves over there? I don't think it is anything strange about that. No? It's just a kind of a little bit further travelling and mental travelling, spiritual travelling instead of physical travelling.
There are two kinds of travel. So, it's very logical and very easy to understand. Now, we are at the second level, Okay, second level. What else should I tell you? So that's how we continue in this world, but then we have the knowledge of the other worlds at the same time. You understand? Because we travel. Just like you are an American citizen or you are any other citizen of the world, but then you travel from one country to another just to know what the neighbor country looks like. And I guess many of you in the United Nations are not native Americans, No? Yes. So, you know now the same thing. We can travel to the next planet or the next level of life in order to understand. Because the distance is so great that we cannot walk, we cannot take a rocket, we cannot take even a UFO.
Some worlds are longer than UFO could fly. UFO! Unidentified object, yeah, okay! A flying object, yes! Now, there is a facility within us which is faster than any UFO can comply. That is our own soul. We call it spirit sometimes. And we can fly with this, without any fuel, without any police, or traffic jam or anything at all. And no need to worry that one day the Arabs don't sell oil to us, because it's self-sufficient. Never goes out of order, except when we want to damage it by violating the universal precepts, violating the harmony of heaven and earth which is very simple to avoid. We will tell you how if you are interested to know. For example, I'll be brief, okay? I am not a preacher. Don't worry. I don't take you to the church. Just for example.
There are some laws in the universe that we should know, just like when we drive the car, we must know the law of the traffic. Red light, you stop; green light, we go. Drive left, on the right, etc... highway, how much speed. So, there are some very simple laws in the universe, in the physical universe. You understand? Beyond our world, beyond this physical universe, there are no laws, no laws at all. We are free, free citizens, but we have to get beyond that in order to be free. And as long as we still live in this world, in the physical body, we should as much as possible keep within the law, so we don't get into trouble. And then our vehicles don't get damaged so we can fly faster, higher, without problems.
So, these laws have been written in the Bible, of your Christian Bible and in the Buddhist Bible or in the Hindu's Bible. The very simple ones like we don't harm the neighbors, we don't kill, "thou shall not kill" and not commit, you know.... outside loving relationships and not stealing, etc. And not taking intoxicants, that includes the drugs today. Probably the Buddha knew, in the 20th century, we would invent cocaine and all that, so he said no drugs. The drugs include all kinds of gambling and anything that makes our mind... how to say, attached to the physical pleasure and forget the spiritual journey. If we want to fly fast, high and without danger, these are physical laws just like the laws of physics. When a rocket wants to fly, the scientist has to observe certain laws. That's all, okay? So, how much more must we be careful because we want to fly higher than that, higher than the rockets can fly, faster than the UFOs. But there are some more details that could be explained, should you be interested. And that will be at the time of initiation. Now we don't want to make you bored with all these precepts which you say, "I know already. I know already. I read it, them in the Bible. Ten precepts, right? Ten commandments."
Actually, many of us read the precepts but are not very deeply concerned with them, or not deeply understood. Or maybe we want to understand..., the way we do, but not the way it's exactly meant. Therefore, it doesn't harm sometimes to remind us, or to listen to a little bit deeper meaning of that, again. For example, in the Bible, in the Old Testament, the first page, God says, I made all the animals to befriend you and to help you, and you shall rule over them. And then Hes says Hes made all the food for the animals, each one a different kind. But Hes didn't tell us to eat them. No! And Hes says, I made all the food, all the herbs in the field and the fruit on the trees which are delicious to the taste and pleasing to the eyes. These shall be your food. But not many people pay attention to that. And so many of the Bible followers are still eating flesh, you know, without understanding what God truly meant.
And if we come into a deeper scientific research and we will know that we are not for flesh eating. Our system, our intestines, our stomach, our teeth, everything is scientifically made for vegetarian diet only. No wonder, most people get sick, get old fast, get fatigued, and get sluggish when they were born so brilliant and intelligent. And they end up a little bit duller each day, and the older they get the worse they feel. It's because we damage our vehicles, our flying objects, our UFO. So, if we like to use this vehicle a little bit longer and safer, then we have to take care of it in a proper way. Now, for example, we have a car. You know, you all drive cars. Now, if you put the wrong petrol in it, how would it happen? What would happen? It would drive just probably a few feet and then stop. And you don't blame the car. It's just our mistake, we mistakenly put some fuel which doesn't belong there. Or if our petrol has some water in it, right, it probably can run for a while, but it has trouble. Right? Or, if our oil has become too dirty and we didn't clean it, it will run for a while but then we will have trouble. And sometimes it explodes just because we didn't look after our car in a proper manner, right?
Similarly, our body is like a vehicle which we can use to fly from here to eternity, to the very high level of scientific wisdom. But sometimes we damage it and we don't use it for the proper purpose. For example, our car is to drive many miles to bring us to the office, to our friends and to different beautiful scenery. But then we don't look after, we put wrong petrol, or we don't take care of the oil, we don't take care of the water tank, everything. And then it doesn't run very fast. It doesn't run very long. And then we just run around in our lawn, in the circle of our backyard. That's all right also. You understand? But it's just we waste our purpose of buying a car. It's just a waste of money and time and our energy. That's all. No one is to be blamed. No police will charge you anything for that. It's just that you waste your car, waste your money when you could go very far and see many things, and enjoy the different scenery.
Similarly, our physical body, we can live in this world but then we can take care that within this physical body, we have other instruments, that we can fly beyond that. Just like an astronaut, he sits in the rocket. The rocket is his instrument. He should take good care that he should not violate the physics' laws so that his rocket will fly safe and fast. But the astronaut inside is important. That rocket brings him to his destination. But the rocket, you understand, is not the main object - the astronaut, the destination. And should he use that just to run around Long Island then it's also a waste of time. Understand? A waste of the money of the nation.
So, therefore our body is very precious because within this sits the master. That's why in the Bible, it says, Know you not that you are the temple of God and Almighty God dwells within you, the holy spirit, the same, the same thing. If we house the holy spirit or the Almighty God, can you imagine how terrible is that, how terribly significant! But many people read this fast but do not understand, do not realize the greatness of this sentence, and do not try to find out. So, this is why my disciples, they like to follow my teaching because they can find out who sits inside and what lies beyond this world, apart from our everyday struggle, money earning and striking and all these physical problems. We have more beauty, more freedom, more knowledge within. And should we know the proper way to contact this, this is all ours because we have them inside. It's just because we don't know where the key is and we have locked this house for a long time and now we've forgotten that we have this treasure. That's all. So, the so-called Master is the one who can help us to open the door and show us what originally already belongs to us. But we have to take time and walk into it and check every item that we have.
So, anyhow, we were in the second world. Are you interested to go further? [Yes! Yes!. The audience replies] You want to know everything without working? (Master laughs.) All right. But at least somebody could tell you what another country looks like when he has been there even though you haven't. Right? At least you are interested, maybe you want to go. Okay. So, now after the second world. I haven't finished all the second, but you know we cannot sit here all day long. So after the second, you may have more power. If you are determined and work for it, you will go to the third.
The so-called third world. It's a higher step. The one who goes to the third world has to be absolutely clean of every debt of this world, at least. You understand? If we owe something to the king of this physical world, we cannot go up. Just like if you are a criminal of some nation, you are not clear of the record, you can not pass beyond the border to go to another nation. So, the debt of this world includes many things that we've done in the past and in the present and maybe in the future days of our physical life. Now all these have to be cleared, just like we clear the customs, before we can go into the world beyond. But when we are in the second world, we start to work, you understand, with any left-over karma of the past and this present life. Because without past karma, we cannot exist in this present life.
The masters have two different categories. One without karma but he borrows the karma to come down; the other one is like us, ordinary beings, but with cleansed karma. So, anyone could be a would-be master, you know, a future master. And sometimes the master descends from the higher world with borrowed karma. How does it sound to you, to borrow the karma? (Master laughs) It's possible. It's possible. For example, before you came down here, you have been here before. Yes? And you have given and taken with different people of the world for many ages or many hundred years. And then you go back to heaven or to your abode which is very far away, different levels at least to the fifth level. That's the house of the master, the fifth level. But beyond that there are more levels, okay!
Now, so when we want to come back again due to compassion or some assigned job from the Father, for example, then we come down. And because of the affinity with the people in the past, we could borrow some of their account, you know, karma. Only debt, nothing, nothing beautiful about the people. We can borrow some debt and then we pay it, understand, by our spiritual power slowly until we finish the job in this world. So, this is a different kind of master, yeah? And there are also ones who are from this world after they practice they immediately become masters here, just like they graduate. Yes. Therefore, in the university just like we have professors and have the students who graduate and become professors afterward. Understand? There are long, long time professors, and newly graduated professors etc. Similarly, there are these kind of masters.
So now, if we want to go to the third world, we must be absolutely clean of every trace of karma. Karma is the law of "As you sow, so shall you reap". Yeah? Just like we plant an orange seed, then we get oranges, an apple seed, we have apples, so these are the so-called karmas. It's the Sanskrit language for cause and retribution. The Bible doesn't talk about karma but it says, As you sow, so shall you reap. That's the same thing.
The Bible is a shortened form of the teaching of the master, and anyhow His life was also a shortened form. Therefore we don't have much explanation in the Bible. And many of the Bible versions have been also censored in order to suit the so-called leaders of these movements; not necessarily always spiritually-minded people. You know in every kind of aspect, people sell and buy everything. Brokers... there are brokers full of every aspect in life. But the Bible, the true Bible, we know is a little bit different, a little bit longer, more precise and easier to understand. Anyhow, because we cannot prove much of it, so we don't talk about it in case people say we are blaspheming. So that we can only say something that we can prove.
And you would ask me then, "You talk about this second world, third world and fourth world. How can you prove it?" Well I can! I can prove it. If you walk along with me, the same path, you will see the same thing. Understand? But if you don't walk, then I can't prove it to you. That's of course. That's of course. Therefore, I dare talk about these things because there is proof. We have proof with hundreds of thousands of disciples around the world. So, we can say things that we know. Now for example, if we go to... but this you have to walk with me, you have to walk. Otherwise you cannot say, "Wow, you walk for me and tell me and show me everything." I cannot.
For example, if I am not in the United Nations in this room, doesn't matter how much you tell about this room, I have not actually experienced it. Right? So, we have to walk with whomever is experienced guide. And I have some of the disciples in this room who have different nationalities, they have had some of these experiences that I have just told you, partly and some fully. Yes, yes. And so, after the third world, this is by no means everything. What I told you is just a part of things. That's kind of travelling story, relating things in a small portion and not very detailed. Even when we read a book about some country, it's not the actual country. Right? Therefore, we have many books about travelling, about different countries in the world, but we still like to go ourselves over there. Right?
We know about Spain and Tenerife and Greece, but these are only movies or only books. We have to go there and to actually experience the joy of being there and the food they offer and the delicious water of the sea and the beautiful weather and the friendly people and all kinds of atmosphere that we cannot experience by reading books.
So, anyhow suppose you have passed the third world and what next? Of course, you go to the higher, the fourth. And the fourth world, this is already out of extraordinary. And we cannot just use the simple language to describe all these things to the lay persons for fearing of offending the lord of that world. Because that world is so beautiful even though there are some parts of it are very dark, darker than on electric-cut night in New York. Have you experienced the whole, complete city in darkness? Yes! It's darker than that! But before you reach the light, it's darker than that. It's the kind of a forbidden city. Before we reach God's knowledge, we are stopped, over there. But with a master, with an experienced master, you can pass through, otherwise we cannot find the road in that kind of world.
When we reach different levels of... planes of existence. We have experienced not only spiritual changes but physical changes also, intellectual changes and everything else in our life. We look at life in a different manner, we walk differently, we work differently. Even our work, our daily work takes on a different meaning and we understand why we work this way, why we have to be in this job, or why should we change that job. We understand our purpose of life, so we no longer feel restless and agitated, yes! But we wait very harmoniously, patiently for our mission on earth to finish, because we know where we are going next. We know while we are living. That's what is said, "dying while living". Yes, yes! And I suppose some of you have heard of something like this before, but I don't know any master who can speak differently, (Master laughs) except that we have to experience the actual joy of the inner experiences. How can anyone who describes... I mean a Mercedes Benz differently. Right? It has to be the same thing. So, any people who own a Mercedes Benz, who know the Benz, he would describe the same thing, understand, but that is not the Benz.
So, even though I speak to you in a very ordinary language, but these are not ordinary things and these are the things we have to experience by ourselves, with work, sincerity and with a guidance. It's safer that way. Although it perhaps happens, one in a million that we can make it ourselves, but with danger, with risk and with very not secure results, not very safe. Some of the people in the past... for example Swedenborg. He had kind of made it himself. Or maybe Gurdjieff, he was supposed to have made it himself, go all the way alone. But when I read some of the people, this work, they have not been without danger and a lot of trouble. And it's not necessarily that all of them reach the highest level.
So, after that you go to a higher level. After the fourth, you go to the higher level. The house of the master which is the fifth level, all the masters came from there. Even though their levels are higher than the fifth, they will stay there. It's the residence of the master. And beyond that, there are many aspects of God, which are difficult to understand. I'm afraid to confuse you, so probably another time I'll tell you, or maybe after initiation when you'll be a little bit more prepared; and I'll tell you some terrific things about your imagination. How sometimes it plays wrong about many ideas about God.
So I welcome some questions, should there be any. And you're welcome to throw me out also, if it's too boring for you. (Master laughs) I'm also happy to go. Any questions? Please. Yes, yes. Please wait. It's all right. No, no. Please wait for the microphone, so people can hear what you say.
Q. You mentioned the master can borrow people's karma. In that case the karma is erased, for these people? What is the consequence for the people?
M: Yes, yes, yes. Oh! The master can erase anybody's karma. If that's what the master chooses to do. In fact all the disciples, at the time of initiation, all the karma in the past has to be erased. I just only leave you the present karma, so we can go on to continue with this life, otherwise we die immediately. No karma, cannot live here. Therefore the master has to erase the store karma only, so the person is clean, and leaves a little bit karma for him to continue this life, to do what he has to do in this life. And after this, finished. That's why he can go, otherwise how can he go? Even if he is clean in this life, how clean? And how about last life, you understand? Yes. Okay.
Q. Thank You.
M: You are welcome. Very intelligent question. So, I think you have been very attentive. Anymore? Please.
Q. What is the goal Your practice?
M: What is the goal? I haven't to told you? To travel beyond this world, go back to Kingdom of God, know your wisdom, and be a better person in this life even.
Q. And is there karma in all realms?
M: Hum, not all realms, up to the second realm only, because our mind, our brain, the computer, is manufactured in that second plane. When we go down all of the way, all the way from the higher planes down to this physical plane, supposedly to do some work. Right? For example, even the master goes from the fifth plane down to the physical world. Then he has go through the second plane and pick up this computer and fix it in, in order to work in this world. Just like a diver, you know, who dives into the sea. He has to go through a preparation of a mask, of oxygen and everything. Even though he himself doesn't look so ridiculous, but, when he wears the oxygen mask and the diving clothes, he looks like a frog you know. That's how we look like sometimes with our... this computer and the physical hindrances. Otherwise we are absolutely beautiful. Even though you think you are beautiful now, you are so ugly compared to what you really are. Understand? Because all the instruments that we have to wear in order to dive deep into this world to work. So after we pass the second level to go upward, we have to leave our computer there, we don't need it up there anymore. So, just like when a diver reaches the shore, he discards all his oxygen mask and all his equipment to dive, yeah, and he looks the way he was. Yeah? Okay! Yes, you continue if you wish. Here, here. We have only one microphone, so poor.
Q. Thank You, thank You, Master. You said that at the end of the second world, before you're go up, that you leave all your karma behind or you have to resolve or clean all your karma. Does that mean that also all of the karma of the past lives that you come into this life with too?
M: Yes. Because no computer to register anything. We only have karma because we have this computer, the mind, the brain which is meant to record every experience of this physical world. That's why we have it. Bad or good we register it in here. That's what we call karma. Karma is what? Just the experiences, bad or good, our reactions, our learning experiences in many lifetime. And because we have a kind of so-called conscience, we know we should be good and sometimes we did bad. Therefore we call that is karma. And the bad things weigh down on us, just like a lot of garbage, luggage, because the law of gravity; it pulls us down and makes us difficult to climb the mountain. Understand? Because of a lot of moral disciplines in this world, a lot of rules, a lot of customs, lots of habits, in different nations, bind us with- in these so-called conceptions of good and bad, guilt and innocence. Therefore when we interact with people of this world, we have experiences of good and bad, guilt and innocence according to the custom, habits of that nation, laws of that nation. Understand? And it becomes a habit that we think that way, that we do this, we are guilty... we do that, we are bad person. And this, all is recorded it in here. That's what makes us transmigrate and makes us bound into this physical world or a little bit higher world. But not high enough. We are not, not..., we are not free enough. We are not light enough to float above. You understand? Because of all this conception... preconception.
Q. Is it predetermined that we will reach a certain level each lifetime when we are born?
M: No, we have free will to run faster or slower. Yes. For example, your car, you put in a hundred liters of petrol. I don't know how much you put in car. I don't know drive a car. But you can go faster with it, yeah, and reach the destination quicker or you go slower. Okay. It's up to you. Yes.
M: The gentleman, next door. Or you want to speak more, yes? No?
Q. Well, I just want to ask You... the angels, what level are they?
M.What level are they? Oh! It depends on what kind of angels?
Q. The guardian angels.
M: Humm?
Q. The guardian angels.
M: Oh! The guardian angels, they could be up to the second level. Angels are less than human beings, less prestige. They are to serve us.
Q. And they never go beyond that?
M: No! Except when they can become human beings. They are all very envious of human beings, because Gods dwell within them. We have all the facilities to become one with God, the angel doesn't. It's complicated. I talk to you another day. Okay! They are things made for our use also you see, the different kinds of angels. Yes. For example, if it is made by God, then it's made to serve us, you understand? And they should not... don't have to go beyond that. Understand? But they could, yeah. Sometimes, something is made without a proper arrangement to improve. You understand? For example, in your house something you made for your own comfort, you understand. Even though it's very fantastic. For example you sit here and you can turn the lights off and on all over your house and garden, and turn on and off the TV, because you invented it for yourself, but this is only to serve you. Because even though it's better than you in some aspects, like it can sit here and control everything and you can not do that by human effort. But that doesn't mean it's better than you. Understand? It's made for the sole purpose of serving you. Even though it's better than you, but it's not. Okay! All right. It can never be human being, the computer. Okay.
M: Yes, sir, yes, sir.
Q. Master Ching Hai, I want to know... that because we are in the body now... could it be that we could have a fallen from being liberated from this body before? Have we always been in this state or have we been in a better state before, or just in this state? What is the good attitude or a good disposition to quickly move ahead?
M: To quit the body and move ahead ah huh. Yes, we can if we know how. Yes. There are many different methods for leaving the body behind and go beyond this world. Some go not far, some go very far, and some go to the end. So according to the comparison that I have made with my different research since I was young. Even though I look still young now, but I was young then, you know. Our method here is the best, yeah! Goes to the farthest one, the farthest one, the far end. There are many other methods, if you choose to experience, you can choose. There are many in the market, some go to the astral world, some go to the furthers..., the third or the fourth, but not many can go to the fifth, yeah. So, our method, our practice is to take you to the fifth before we set you free. Understand? Let you go alone. And beyond that we can approach a different aspect of God, beyond the fifth plane, but it's not always pleasant, yes. We always imagine that the higher the better; it's not always true. For example, sometimes we go into a beautiful palace and we were invited into the living room of the master. We sat there and we were served with cool drinks and beautiful eating and everything. And then we thought we should go a little bit deeper into the house, have a look. And we would venture into the garbage place and you know many other things in the house. It's not always important. Yeah? And also into a power house you know, we went into the electricity house which is just behind the house, beyond the house, and we got shocked so then we die there. So it's not always necessary or recommendable to go into deeper, but we could do that for the sake of adventure. Yeah, Okay.
Q. Master Ching Hai, I have two questions. One is, what world do past life memories come from, if you were to have the memory of the past life. And secondly, how do past lives relate to karma?
M: To your present, right? To your karma?
Q. To the present karma and to one's present understanding? Are they part of the excess baggage?
M: Yes, yes. They relate very much. First question, where does the past karma come from?
Q. Past life memories. Yes.
M: You can read the past life record, that's for sure. And the past life records, as I have told you, came from the akashic record. Yes. And this is a kind of library in the second world which is accessible to anyone who can reach there. Not everyone can go to the United Nations' library and have accessed to it. But I can, for example today, because I'm invited to talk in the United Nations. Right? Not everyone can come in, but you can, because you are a kind of residents here. So, similarly, when we get access to the second world, we can read the past life, yeah! Also when we access into the first world, some of it, we can have some glimpse of the past life of a person. But that's not very high and not very complete record. And how do these past life experiences relate to the present karma? We can say that these are the experiences we have learned in order to cope with this present lifetime. You understand? What you assimilated in the past, you will bring into practice at this present lifetime. And similarly, too many unpleasant experiences in the past would make you frightened, when you see some symbol that is very much similar to the past life... For example, if last life... just now, you drop off from the staircase, yeah, by accident and then hurt yourself badly and in the dark, and nobody helps you. And now when you walk down the staircase, you would feel a little frightened, especially when it is deep and dark underneath, you would feel a kind of struggle whether you go or not. Or if last life you have already studied and researched deep into some scientific field. This life you will find yourself still very interested... interested in... This is Chinese tongue-twister (laughs). I'm sorry. Is my English still clear enough? Yeah? (Audience: Yes) Okay. Thank you. So you still feel very... you have kind of a pull to any kind of scientific research, even though you are not a kind of scientist now. Any kind of thing like that. That's why Mozart, he was so..., a genius when he was four years old. He went straight to the piano and he became famous up till now, still. Yeah? He was a genius because he had practiced in many other lifetimes until master-ship, but then he died after that. Understand? Before he reached the peak of his career, he died and he wasn't satisfied just to leave... to leave his career because he loved music. So he came back and all his learned experience from his past musical talent came back to him, because he had so strong desire to continue when he died. Understand? And some of these people learn many things from the astral world or the second world before they are reborn in this world again. Therefore they are fantastically gifted with science, or with music, or with literature, or with any kind of inventions, which other people don't know. You see, kind of very extraordinary inventions that other people cannot understand it and cannot even dream of inventing. Okay? Because they have seen them, they have learned them. Therefore, two kinds of learning in this world or in the world beyond. Those who are gifted and excellent, like genius, they are the experts from the world beyond, like in the astral world, the second world... sometimes from the third world, if he choses to come back. Yeah? They are excellent. These are geniuses. Okay? Yes?
Q. Specifically, what does Your initiation involve and once one is initiated, what would the day-to-day practice involve?
M: Okay. Yes. First of all, it's all free of charge and no binding involved, except that you have to bind yourself, should you want to continue to go further. Hmmm? So, the conditions -no experience required. Yeah? No previous knowledge about any yoga, or any meditation required. But then, you have to commit yourself to a lifelong vegetarian diet. No eggs. Milk okay. Cheese okay. Anything else without killing is okay. Egg because it also involves of half-killing, even though it's how to say... infertile. And also it has kind of quality to have a tendency to attract negative power. You know, that's why many people of the black and white magicians field, or many voodoo people - so-called voodoo, they use eggs to draw some of the entities from possessed persons. If you know it or not? You know? Oh, that's fantastic! At least, I have immediate proof, if not immediate enlightenment, for you. (Laughter) And after initiation... the time of initiation, you experience the light and the sound of God. Yeah? The music of the spirit, it draws you up to the higher level of consciousness. You will understand the taste of samadhi - the deep peace and joy. Yes. And after that, you continue to practice at home, if you are serious. If you are not, I cannot push you, I cannot bother you any more. If you continue and you want me to help you all the way, then I continue. If you do not... you see that's the way. And two and a half hours a day meditation. Wake up early in the morning.
Before you sleep, meditate two hours; and maybe half an hour in the lunch time. When I am not here to speak, you have one-hour lunch. You can hide away somewhere and meditate. That's already one hour. Yeah? And in the evening, you make one more hour or half an hour. In the morning, get up earlier one hour. Regulate more of your life, you know, less TV, less gossip, less telephone, less newspapers, then you have a lot of time. Yes, truly we have a lot of time but sometimes we waste away our time. Just like our car running in the backyard instead of going to Long Island, yeah. Are you satisfied with that? Or... ? Yes? Yes, and nothing more. No conditions for you, nothing else except you commit yourself to this lifelong practice. And everyday you experience different changes for the better, and different miracles for your life, not that you wish for it. It will happen anyhow. Understand? And then you truly experience what's heaven like on earth, if you are really serious about it. That's how many hundreds of thousands of our disciples still hang on, still hang on to me after many years, because they have better and better experiences, because they are serious about it and they do practice.
M: Hmm. Yes, please. Yeah, in front or right behind. Gentleman first. (Master laughs.)
Q. Please explain the nature of consciousness.
M: Nature of consciousness, okay. It's hard to explain but you could use your intelligence to imagine. It's a kind of wisdom, you know, like you know something better than you ever did before. Yes, you know something that is beyond this world, and you know something in this world which you did not know before, and you understand many things that you do not understand or you did not understand before.
That's the consciousness. And also when you open this consciousness, or the so-called wisdom, you will understand truly who you are and why you are here and what else is beyond this world, and who else, beyond or apart from our worldly citizens. Understand? There are many things. So the level of consciousness is a kind of different degrees of understanding, just like a graduation in college. The more you learn, the more you know, until graduation. Are you satisfied? It's difficult to explain something that is abstract, but I have tried. It's a kind of awareness, you know. It's difficult to explain awareness. When you go to different, higher levels of consciousness, your awareness is different. You know things different, you feel different. You feel just absolutely in peace, tranquil, blissful. You have no worry, and everything in your daily life becomes clear to you. You know how to handle things and how to take care of problems better. Hmmm? Even it benefits already in the physical level. And inside you, how you feel - that only you know. It's difficult to explain these things. Just like you are married to the girl you love, how you feel - that only you know. Hmmm? No one else can feel it for you. Yes.
Q. Honorable Master, thank You for the insight You have given us. I wonder if You would like to address Yourself to something that is in my conscience. Why are so many masters on earth today giving us a chance to learn so quickly, whereas that in the past it has been so difficult? Can you address Yourself to that?
M: Yes, sure. Because in our times, the communication is better. So we know better about the masters, not that in the past, masters did not exist, or masters were inaccessible. Of course, it is true that some masters are more accessible than the others. It depends on his choice, or his willingness to give, or his affinity with the people at large. But then, in any age, always there are one, two, three, four, five masters. Depends on the need of the time. Just we are more aware of the presence of many different masters, maybe different degrees of masters, be- cause in these times we are fortunate to have the mass media, to have television, to have radio broadcasts, and books, which we print in millions, in thousands of millions of copies in no time. Yes. In the olden times, we want to print a book, we have to cut the whole tree down first and chop them with very unsophisticated axes, which are kaput in no time and no use in another time, and have to polish it with stones and all kinds of things, and to carve one word after another. And when you want to transfer a whole set of Bibles, it takes a whole convoy. You understand? Big trucks, if you have a truck at that time. So that's why we know of many masters. You understand? Yes, so it's lucky, this is very good for you that have... you can shop, you know, you can choose what you want. So no one will be able to cheat you and say "I am the best." Yeah, you can have comparison and use your wisdom, intelligence to judge. "Oh, this one is better" or "I like that one better." "Face looks terrible." "Oh, that one - ugly." (Laughter)
Q. So my question to You then would be, since You have talked about shopping, would You consider initiating someone who has been initiated by another master?
M: I would only if that person truly believes that I am more able to take her or him to a higher level and faster. Otherwise it is better to stick to one's own master if one still feels very much attached, and has much faith in that master. If you believe your master is the best already, then don't change. If you still have doubt and if you still have not got the light and sound which I have mentioned, then you should try. Yes, because light and sound is the standard measurement for a real master. If anyone who is not able to impart you immediate light or sound he is not a real master, I am sorry to say. The road to heaven is equipped with light and sound. Just like you go to dive into the sea, you have to be equipped with oxygen mask and all that. There are things for different purposes. Okay? That's why you see all the saints with the halo on them. That's light.
When you practice this method, you radiate the same light like they draw on the picture of Jesus, and people can see it. If the people are psychic, you know, they can see your light. That's why they draw Jesus with the halo and they draw Buddha, with the light around Them. You can see practitioners, in high degree, with this light if you are opened. (Master points to Her fore- head). Many people can see that. Have any of you seen, who are here? You? What did you see?
Q. Well, I can see auras, auras....
M: Yeah, but auras are different from light. Auras are different colors, sometimes black, sometimes coffee, coffee color, and sometimes are yellow or red. Depends on his temperament at that time. But when you see a person with a strong spiritual aura, you know it's different. Right? Yeah.
Q. I don't really have a question. I just...., I used to do raja yoga for a while.
M: Raja yoga. Yeah.
Q. And I thought I saw also auras. I mean at that time, I didn't have much knowledge, you know....
M: Understand.
Q. Understanding.
M: And you don't see it now? You only see it sometimes?
Q. No, I don't meditate now.
M: Oh, that's why, you lost your power. Should meditate again, huh?
Q. Yeah!
M: If you still believe in that path, you should meditate. It helps you to some extent. It would not harm. Okay?
Q. I saw in Your leaflet that there are five precepts. Once you are initiated, you have to live according to these five precepts?
M: Yes, yes, yes. These are the laws of the universe.
Q. I don't understand sexual misconduct.
M: It means if you have a husband already, please don't consider the second.
Q. Okay. (Audience laughs)
M: Very simple. Keep your life more simple, no complication and quarreling over emotions. Yes. It causes hurt feelings for other people. We don't harm other people, even emotionally. That's what it is. We try to avoid conflicts, try to avoid suffering, emotionally, physically, mentally for everyone, especially our loved ones, that's all. Okay? If you already have one, don't tell him. It hurts more when you tell. Just solve it slowly and quietly, and don't confess to him. Because sometimes people think if they have an affair, and then they go home and confess to his wife or her husband, that's very wise and very honest. It's nonsense. It's no good. You already made mistake, why you bring garbage home and to let other people enjoy it? If he doesn't know about it, he doesn't feel that bad. You understand? The fact of knowing hurts. So we try to solve that problem and not to have it again, and that's it. Better not to talk to the partner about this, because it will hurt them, hurt the partners. Yeah!
Q. I have noticed that many spiritual masters have a great sense of humor. What is the relationship of humor to spiritual practice?
M: Oh, I see. I guess they are just feeling happy, and relaxed, you know, and light-hearted about everything. And they could laugh at themselves and laugh at others, laugh about ridiculous things in this life when many people cling so tensely and taking so seriously. After we practice somehow, we just get loose. You know, we don't feel so serious any more. If we die tomorrow, we die; if we live, we live, you know. If we lost everything, we lost everything; if we have everything, we have everything. Yes, we have enough wisdom and ability after enlightenment to take care of ourselves in every situation. So we are not scared of anything. We lose our fear, we lose our anxiety. That's why we're relaxed. We feel detached to this world. Whatever we gain or lose doesn't mean much any more. If we gain a lot of things, it's only for the benefit of people, then we offer; and for the benefit of loved ones. Otherwise we don't consider ourselves or our life that important to go through all of the struggles and sufferings to preserve it. If we preserve it, it's all right. It doesn't mean we sit in bed all day on the nail bed and then meditate. But we do work. You understand? For example, I still work, huh! I do my painting, and my handicraft works to earn my living. So I don't want to take donations from anyone. And even my earning is so much I can help people. I can help the refugees, the disaster victims and all that. Why shouldn't we work? But we have so much talent and abilities, and life is so easy for us after enlightenment that we feel there is just no need to worry. You understand? We just naturally relax. That's how the sense of humor is born. I guess that is what it is, huh? Do you find me humorous? (Audience: Yes) (Laughter and applause.) Yes (Master laughs.) Then maybe... I must be a master of some kind huh? (Laughter). Okay. (Master laughs.) Let's hope so, for your sake huh, so that you didn't listen to an unenlightened person for two hours, waste your time. Okay. Any more question?
Q. Master Ching Hai, a rush of questions are flooding my mind. And I'll just say them all, and You can answer any or none of them.
M: Okay. One hundred and eight.
Q. And they're questions that we, as seeking souls, always ask and we get theories and stories, and I'd just like to hear what you have to say about them. The first is "Who are we? Who am I? and How did I get to be in the predicament that I have to get back home?" You know, how did I leave home and why is it important to go back home? And you talked about going back to the fifth realm, and it not necessarily being important to go further than that. But if there is a further than that, then what is the purpose of it? What relationship does it have to me if I don't necessarily have to go back there? Those kinds of questions?
M: Okay, one at a time. Okay, I think I'll answer this group of questions first. So, the first group consisted of "Who are you? Why are you here and Why you have to go home? and Why the fifth and not the sixth?" Right? Simple. It's getting humorous now. (Laughter and applause.) Okay. Pertaining to the question of "Who am I ?", you can go and ask the Zen master, which is abound in New York state. You can look in the yellow pages and find one (Laughter). I am not specialized in that. And the second, "Why are you here ?" Maybe because you like to be here, hmmm? Or else who can force us to be here since we are the children of God. The so-called children of God are like God himself. No? A prince is similar to the king, yeah, in some aspects, or more or less like the king, or the future king. So only when he likes to be somewhere, then he'll be there. Hmmm? Anyhow, we have free will to choose to be in heaven or to be somewhere else to experience for ourselves. That's, probably you have chosen to be here in the beginning, many ages ago, to learn something more adventurous, you know, something more frightening. Some people love scary experiences, you know. For example... the prince, he can be in the palace but he could be wandering in the jungle, you know. Because he loved to be exploring things in the nature. It could be that way. Hmmm? It could be that we were so bored, bored in heaven, because everything was made ready and served to our palace doors, so we want to do something for ourselves. Just like the royal household, sometimes they want to cook for themselves and they don't want the servants to be near. And they smear themselves with ketchup and oil all over the place but they love it, you know. Doesn't look very princely, but they love it. Yes, yes, yes. So for example, I have people who drive for me. Every- where I go, people would love to be my driver. But sometimes, I like to drive for myself. I drive on my small tricycle, non- smoking tricycle, yeah, electric plug-in, ten miles an hour, no, ten kilometers an hour. I like to go around like that. Yeah? Because everywhere I go, people notice me a lot, so sometimes I want to go somewhere that the people don't know me. I'm very shy except when I have to talk in the lecture, because it has become kind of duty now since people dug me out and made me famous up till now. I cannot run away so often but sometimes I do run away, you know, for two-three months. Just like a, you know, pampered wife who runs away from husband. And so it's my choice, you see. So perhaps you have chosen to be here for a while. And perhaps it's time now that you want to go because you have learned enough of this world, and you feel that there is nothing more that you want to learn, and you are tired of traveling. You want to rest. Go home, have a rest first. And then see whether you want to go again or not, on an adventurous journey. Okay? That's all I can say up to now. And why do you have to go home? And why the fifth and not the sixth? That's up to you. After the fifth, you can go anywhere you want. There are many more levels upward. You understand? But it's just more comfortable, more neutral to stay there. It's too powerful, further upward, maybe like that. You can go for a while, but maybe you wouldn't like to rest, for example. For example, your house is beautiful, but there are some parts of the house are for rest room and you wouldn't want to rest there forever, even though it's beyond your house. You know, it looks like up the hill and the higher, more beautiful, but it's not the place to rest. Or in the electric-power department in your house, the generator - noisy, loud, heat, hot and, you know, dangerous. So you wouldn't want to be there even though it is very helpful for your house. Understand? That's all. There are many aspects of God that we could not imagine. We always imagine the higher we go, the more loving. But there are different kinds of love. There is violent love, you know, strong love, mild love, neutral love. So it depends on how we can bear, God will give us different degrees of love. Right. Different levels, offer some different degrees of love from God. Okay? But sometimes it's too strong, we feel..., we feel we are torn into ribbons.
Q. Hi. I see so much destruction going on around me, environmental destruction.
M: True.
Q. Cruelty. Cruelty to animals.
M: It's true.
Q. I just wonder how You perceive this and what You can recommend to people who are trying to release themselves from this world in the spiritual fashion, to help them cope with their surroundings and cope with all the devastation that is going on around them. And do You think that going beyond this world is enough for us to recognize what we are leaving behind, or do You feel we in this plane have a duty to try to alleviate the suffering? And will it do any good?
M: It will. It will. At least for us, for our conscience so that we feel we are doing something and we have tried our best to relieve the suffering of our fellow beings. I do all the same. Whatever you ask, I am doing. I did, I do, and I will. I have told you al- ready, our finances are distributed to different organizations, sometimes, or different countries, when there are in disasters. And I would not like to boast much about it, but since you ask... And for example, we helped Philippines last year for their release of their... relief of their Mt. Pinatubo. And we helped the flood victims in Vietnam, and the flood victims in China etc. And we are trying to help the Vietnamese refugees now to release...to.... to help with the U.N.'s burden, you understand, provided the U.N. wants us to help. But we are trying. Yes, understand now? We help them with financial support, and also we could relocate them if the U.N. lets it happen - with the blessing of the U.N. Understand? Yes, so we do all these things that you have requested and also because, since we are here, you understand, we might just as well clean our environment as much as possible. Therefore, we help with the suffering and we help with the moral standard of the world. Yeah? Both spiritually and physically. Yes. Because some people don't want to take spirituality from me. They only want to take physical help. So we help them physically. And that's what we do, that's why I have to earn money. That's why I don't want to live on people's donations. Understand? All my monks and my disciples have to work, just like you do. And then, apart from that, we help spiritually also, understand, and help with the suffering of the world, help to relieve the suffering of the world. We have to do this. Doesn't mean we sit in samadhi all day long and enjoy ourselves. That's a very selfish Buddha (enlightened being). We don't want to have him here. (laughter)
Q. I just have one more question. I was wondering if You knew anything... I heard many reports that the Dali Lama eats meat and I was just wondering if You knew if that was true and how he would excuse that.
M. I don't know why you asked me, you have to ask him.
Q. I just wondered if You had heard it or if You knew anything about that.
M. You see I very much not like to talk other people things, especially when that person is not here to defend himself; should things not be the way we understood. All right, please excuse. He is a lovable person as far as he can be. And anything else is his own responsibility and choice of life.
Q. Thank You Master Ching Hai, for having the patience with us today, [Master: It's okay] for answering our questions and being so generous. You spoke about a level where one is aware that they have powers that come from that awareness. Now what if you are aware of the powers, you don't know that you have them but you are aware of them. You may even feel like you do. How do you access it or not access it? If you don't access it, how do you not become impatient with the process that's going on around? Like you see the process taking a slow, mundane way when you know you can just pray or do something else to bring about a better or quicker resolution.
M. Yeah, understand.
Q. What does that mean and how does one access it with the blessing that it will come out okay? Do you understand what I mean?
M. I understand, I understand. What you meant is that when we have the power to change things and when the things around go in a bureaucratic way and a slow way, how would you have the patience to bear it, right? Or would you just pray or do some magic or point a finger and push it, right? No, I have patience because we have to work with the pace of this world in order not to bring it into chaos. Yes. For example, a child cannot run. Not because you are in a hurry or you want to run that you make the child stumble and fall. So we have to be patient. Even though we have the power to run, we walk with the child, yes. That's why sometimes I am also frustrated and impatient but I have to teach myself to be patient. That's why I have to go and bow my head from one president after another for the refugees, even though we want to add all the financial support. We would give all we have, everything, millions of dollars, or billions even. We have to go through the bureaucratic system. Give Caesar what belongs to Caesar. Understand? I am not going to wield my head or to point a finger at the U.N. even -make them run. No, no. We cause disaster in this world if we use physical, magic power. Understand? It has to go the way it goes. But we can elevate people's consciousness by spiritual healing, by spiritual wisdom, understanding. Impart to them the knowledge that they are willing to do it, you understand, and cooperate. That's the best way, not to use magical power. I never intentionally use magical power in any aspect of life. But miracles just happen around the spiritual practitioners. That's very natural, but not intentionally. You understand? Not trying to push things. Yes, that's no good. The child cannot run. All right? You satisfied with my answer? If any of my answers don't suit you, please let me know, because I can explain further. But I trust you are very intelligent, being the most chosen and intelligent people of all nations. Therefore I don't elaborate very much, yeah. Any more question? Yes, behind there. It's good that we have United Nations, I have to say, by the way. Yes, yes. We eliminate many of the world's conflicts and wars, even though we cannot completely minimize. But I read your books of United Nations. Everyone is United Nations. And I have followed some of the United Nations work. And I must praise its effort and efficiency in rescuing hostages where other people cannot rescue, all the power of the world cannot rescue and one United Nations' commissioner did it.
Yes, and many other things concerning disaster relief, refugee problems. You have about twelve million refugees, I heard, responsibility. No? It's a lot of work, and the wars and everything. So it's good that we have United Nations, yeah! It's very good.
Q. Thank You, Master Ching Hai, for sharing Your wisdom with us. I have a question. It's about the escalating world population and its accompanying problem of further environmental abuse and the further greater demand for food. Would You like to comment something on this escalating world population? Is this a world karma? Or is this going to create certain kind of karma in the future?
M: Ummm, to have more people for this world is also very good. Why not? More crowded, more noise, more fun. No? It's not that we are overpopulated, really. We just not spread out evenly. People just condense in certain areas of the world and do not want to move to another area. That is all. Yeah, we have so many vast areas of wild land that have not been used. Many virgin islands, many vast.. you know, plateaus which are only green with forests and nothing there. Ummm, people just like to concentrate in New York, for example (Laughter) because it's more fun here. Yes, because if a government or any government is able to create jobs, you understand, and industry... and employment of different kinds in different places and people would go there also to work. They just condense in some places because it's easier to find employment here, or safety. If the safety, security and employment opportunity presents itself in those other different places, people would go there also. They would go for security, for their livelihood. That's very natural. Yeah? So, it's not that we should fear about overpopulation. We should be more organized to give people of the world more benefit of employment opportunities and housing and security. Then everywhere is the same. We would never be overpopulated. And about your question concerning food, you should know better. Because in America, we have so much information concerning how to preserve the world. Vegetarian diet is one of the best, to preserve the world's resources, to feed the whole population of the earth. Because we waste a lot of vegetarian food, energy, electricity, medicine, to raise animals. Understand? Whereby it could feed other people directly. And many countries of the third world nations, they sell their protein-enriched vegetarian food for cheaper price. But that is not a help to the other world nations' populations. If we spread all the food evenly and vegetarian diet will help this, not only for ourselves, not only for the animals, but for the whole world. One of the research something... magazines, they already said that if want... if everyone in the... how to say... Oh, last time, I was in United Nations, I mentioned that already. I've forgotten. If we eat vegetarian, the world will not be hungry anymore. And also we have to organize, yeah, organize. I know some person, he can make rice bran into nutritious food and milk even. And we have talked last time about that. He said he spend about three hundred thousand dollars and he can feed six hundred thousand people in Ceylon - the poor, the under-nourished, the mothers, and all that. Yeah, it was fantastic. Because the way we do it in many parts of the world, it's that we waste the natural resources, not that we don't have enough. God wouldn't put us here to starve. Actually, we starve ourselves. So we have to rethink... rethink, reorganize, and that needs the blessing of many countries' governments. They have to bless us with their absolute honesty, cleanliness and, you understand, dignity, and the will to serve people instead of serve themselves. If we have this blessing from all the countries' governments, you understand, we have no problem really. No problem. We have to have good leadership, good economic organization and ruling talents and honest governments. But that can come about more rapidly when many people or most of the people or all the people become spiritual. Then they know the discipline. Then they know the precepts. Then they know how to be honest and clean. And they know how to use their wisdom then. Then they can think of many things to do and reorganize our lives. Understand? Otherwise if you just run for power with your pocket money or with the money collected from the public and then you try to collect the same money again before you run out of power then. Does not help at all. Does not matter if you sit on gold mine, we die all the same of poverty. The leaders of many nations have to be aware of their power and responsibility. Have to think of the people, reorganize the system. Uh! Yes.
Q. That seems to be very difficult because as I see, much of the... as I understand, much of the environmental abuse today has to do with a growing population's demand for more living space, for homes, for living the way we in the 20th century know and want to live. Say the jungles in Brazil. The environmental abuse there. The destruction of the forest there, the rain forest. The land, it's being defoliated and that results in floods. And these are not unrelated to the problem of overpopulation.
M: Yes, everything is related to each other, of course, in this world. And the only solution is to solve it from the root, not the branches. And the root is spiritual stability. Understand? (Applause) So all we have to do is to try to spread the spiritual message, what we know, and keep to the spiritual discipline. That's what people don't have. It's okay to plug yourself in the electric machine and have some lights and some buzzing music and get samadhi. But if you don't have moral discipline, then you only use the power for bad things sometimes. Can't control it. You understand? That's why we in this group, we keep... teach people the precepts first. Precepts are important. We have to know where we go and maneuver our power. Power without love, without compassion, without proper understanding of the moral value, then it's no use. It becomes black magic, abuse. Yeah. That's where black magic comes from. Understand? So it's easy to get enlightenment, it's hard to keep it. In our path, if you are not truly disciplined and morally equipped, the master will take away some of your power so that you cannot abuse it and do bad things to the society. Understand? That's the difference. Master has control. The master power, the master power, okay? Yes, I am very happy with all of your intelligent questions. Very intelligent. People do these things because they are not wise enough, you know, like abusing the land that you have said, or doing something just because their lack of wisdom. Yes, so the root is wisdom, spiritual practice. Get enlightened. Yes man.
Q. I've read a couple of Your books and I've listened to several of Your tapes.
M: You have! Amazing! So we knew each other then.
Q. I am intrigued by the concept of asuras.
M: A..S..U..R..A..S...What is that? Asura! Asura! Ah, astral! Ah asuras! Yes, yes, yes. This is the Sanskrit language for astral entities, astral entities. Okay now. I didn't know you speak in the Sanskrit. Right so!
Q. So my question is that I know that I struggle to do the right thing to do my practices and I know that I am struggling against something that is struggling against me. And my question is how do I get beyond the struggle? How do I win?
M: That's where fun is. If something is too easy, you know you lose the challenge and you don't even want to win it. Yes. Therefore, we have two powers inside us. We call "yin and yang" in Oriental terms, and Chinese. Uh. We call negative and positive in the western terminology. Negative power just pushes us to do something which is against our will, and positive power helps us to conquer that tendency. And sometimes we lose, sometimes we win, depends on our spiritual discipline and power. So try to struggle and continue. Just like the United Nations struggle with refugees issues and the wars in the world. Sometime you win at the end, it takes some struggling. I thank you for your attention. All the best.
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